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Cartwheels across the window?


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#61 bartman

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 01:23 PM

No No No, You should be saying Very Slow Motion. You should be stopping and holding 360 points per rotation...

Nothing Less is good enough. Wobbles are simply not allowed.

Do it or fail...

Of course there are some people out there who have modified their kites/bridles etc. so that they claim that they can do all this stuff without fail every time and in all wind conditions...

They will, of course, be happy to show you how to achieve their exemplary capabilities at a festival near you any time soon now...

NOT...

Back in the real world we stick to our Piano scales and enjoy the drill...

Felix



Errr, "Yes SIR!"

Bart

#62 SkyPuppet

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 01:49 PM

Hello Bart,

I have a decent cartwheel going on now. Maybe these tips will help you:

I think the reason its so important to have your handles tuned to a "neutral" position is so that during the transitions, you don't have to try and control the forward/reverse aspect as much. I will refrain from saying which knots on the leaders I'm using, (from here on out), because so many things affect this setting, save to say that my setup is now "neutral", and not having to manipulate my wrists as much during the transitions is working out for me.

I've found it beneficial to practice doing little "rainbows" right to left to right etc. as demonstrated in a vid Madquad posted (check 1:47 to 1:54): http://www.youtube.c...h?v=CKO0RpXoVZ0
During this part, while flying inverted, Andy taps the LE tips right to left to right etc, making little, slow arcs. I practice doing this inverted, as in the vid, a whole bunch of times, and also practice doing this with the kite upright a whole bunch of times. Don't let the Rev transition at first, just practice this until the arcs looks smooth inverted and upright, separately.

By the end of WSIKF I hope to hear some pointers from you! :)
My cartwheels could still use lots of improvement.

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#63 RevWizard

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 02:12 PM

No No No, You should be saying Very Slow Motion. You should be stopping and holding 360 points per rotation...

Nothing Less is good enough. Wobbles are simply not allowed.

Do it or fail...

Of course there are some people out there who have modified their kites/bridles etc. so that they claim that they can do all this stuff without fail every time and in all wind conditions...

They will, of course, be happy to show you how to achieve their exemplary capabilities at a festival near you any time soon now...

NOT...

Back in the real world we stick to our Piano scales and enjoy the drill...

Felix

My mentor has spoken.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#64 Felix Mottram

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 02:13 PM

Errr, "Yes SIR!"

Bart


Hi Bart,

Thanks for paying attention... no need for the honorific though!

JB has mentioned the full sail many times. We need that in the middle of the wind window with the kite neutral, as in not going off in any direction.

I'm advocating hands down at thigh level with handles horizontal and an active stance. I'm waiting to hear of alternative suggestions to this position.

Felix

#65 Felix Mottram

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 02:24 PM

My mentor has spoken.


Hi John,

Thanks for the encouragement <grins>

Felix

#66 bartman

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 08:16 PM

Okay, so went out tonight and tried the idea of these little arcs from tip to tip inverted and upright. I think this will be the way I learn it. I did them as slow as I could which was tough. Very little wind down low tonight so I had to back up quite a bit while doing it and I did tend to snag the end tips in the grass at times in the process.

The pattern was there most of the time. I would got left then right as many times as I could before running into problems and needing to reset. It was more recognizable with touching the ground than trying to do it higher up where there was more air movement.

It's on it's way for sure!

Bart

#67 stroke survivor

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 09:13 PM

Okay, so went out tonight and tried the idea of these little arcs from to to top inverted and upright. I think this will be the way I learn it. I did them as slow as I could which was tough. Very little wind down low tonight so I had to back up quite a bit while doing it and I did tend to snag the end tips in the grass at times in the process.

The pattern was there most of the time. I would got left then right as many times as I could before running into problems and needing to reset. It was more recognizable with touching the ground than trying to do it higher up where there was more air movement.

It's on it's way for sure!

Bart


I gotta get you to show me at WSIKF!!! Posted Image Got to be a simpler way than what I'm (not) doing!!!! Posted Image Maybe the rainbows will work, I'll try it next time out!! Posted Image

wayne from portland
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#68 Khal

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 10:36 PM

I finally got out to practice this some on Friday and I noticed something that surprised me. I seemed to make progress a lot faster on the moonwalk than on the cartwheel. For some reason counter-rotating while traveling was just a much more natural motion for me, in either direction. Anybody else experience this?

I think it might come down to the fact that for the cartwheel to look right, the rotation speed and travel speed must match up, so the kite appears to roll along without "slipping". For the moonwalk, it's all slip. As long as the rotation speed is constant then it looks pretty good regardless of the travel speed.

Now I've got to try these slow tip-to-tip arcs....
Brian

Posted Image Posted Image

#69 SkyPuppet

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 07:21 AM

I had the same experience Khal!

The first time I tried a cartwheel I actually tried a moonwalk (and didn't know it). I found the first rotation of a moonwalk far easier to do than the first rotation of a cartwheel, especially if I'm traveling right to left.

I've been thinking about this trick's name (bicycle/cartwheel). Maybe it needs to become 2 completely separate tricks -

Bicycle, where you are traveling horizontally, in the air, while spinning in the direction you are traveling; the spin speed can be variable.

Cartwheel, where you are traveling horizontally, while spinning in the direction you are traveling, touch the LE tips to the ground with every 180 degrees of rotation; spin speed should match travel speed.

Then there is the Moonwalk, where you travel horizontally, in the air, while spinning in the opposite direction of travel; spin speed can be variable.

Have Rev, Will Travel

 

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#70 stroke survivor

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 08:03 AM

I had the same experience Khal!

The first time I tried a cartwheel I actually tried a moonwalk (and didn't know it). I found the first rotation of a moonwalk far easier to do than the first rotation of a cartwheel, especially if I'm traveling right to left.

I've been thinking about this trick's name (bicycle/cartwheel). Maybe it needs to become 2 completely separate tricks -

Bicycle, where you are traveling horizontally, in the air, while spinning in the direction you are traveling; the spin speed can be variable.

Cartwheel, where you are traveling horizontally, while spinning in the direction you are traveling, touch the LE tips to the ground with every 180 degrees of rotation; spin speed should match travel speed.

Then there is the Moonwalk, where you travel horizontally, in the air, while spinning in the opposite direction of travel; spin speed can be variable.


I thought (could be off here) that the bicycle spin was a stationary trick, no travelling!! The moonwalk and cartwheel do involve travelling and rotation!! Am I right, here??? Posted Image

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

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#71 bartman

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 08:06 AM

I understand this as two different things.

Bicycle is one thing - stationary.

Cartwheel or travelling bicycle is the other.

Bart

#72 stroke survivor

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 08:18 AM

I understand this as two different things.

Bicycle is one thing - stationary.

Cartwheel or travelling bicycle is the other.

Bart


That's what I understood it to be!!! Posted Image

wayne from portland
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#73 RevWizard

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 08:56 AM

The Bicycle is definitely rolling, not stationary, as can be seen in earlier AKA/STACK Compulsory figure Q-11.
It was never taken on as an ISK Compulsory figure, however the pairs version (MP02 - Tandem) was an ISK Compulsory figure.

Attached Thumbnails

  • q-11.gif

Attached Files

  • Attached File  q11.htm   2.4KB   90 downloads

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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#74 RevWizard

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 08:56 AM

The Bicycle is definitely rolling, not stationary, as can be seen in earlier AKA/STACK Compulsory figure Q-11.
It was never taken on as an ISK Compulsory figure, however the pairs version (MP02 - Tandem) was an ISK Compulsory figure.

Open the htm file for the text.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#75 stroke survivor

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 09:39 AM

The Bicycle is definitely rolling, not stationary, as can be seen in earlier AKA/STACK Compulsory figure Q-11.
It was never taken on as an ISK Compulsory figure, however the pairs version (MP02 - Tandem) was an ISK Compulsory figure.


So the bicycle is performed higher in the window and the cartwheel and moonwalk closer to the ground?? Posted Image

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

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#76 Khal

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 09:43 AM

The first time I tried a cartwheel I actually tried a moonwalk (and didn't know it). I found the first rotation of a moonwalk far easier to do than the first rotation of a cartwheel, especially if I'm traveling right to left.


Yes, exactly! Besides the slip vs. no-slip thing, I'm starting to think that this is also in part because I'm far more used to flying horizontally and turning up rather than down (without losing altitiude). It feels more natural becasue it's close to something that I'm doing all the time anyway. I wonder if I can make progress on the cartwheel by practicing flying horizontally and turning 180 deg down to change direction, just to train my hands to that motion.
Brian

Posted Image Posted Image

#77 bartman

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 10:22 AM

So the "stationary bicycle" is better referred to as a pinwheel?

Make it more and it is the bicycle or cartwheel?

Bart

#78 SkyPuppet

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 10:28 AM

<snip> JB has mentioned the full sail many times. We need that in the middle of the wind window with the kite neutral, as in not going off in any direction.

I'm advocating hands down at thigh level with handles horizontal and an active stance. I'm waiting to hear of alternative suggestions to this position.

Felix



I second this as a good "neutral" stance.

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#79 SkyPuppet

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 10:33 AM

<snip> I wonder if I can make progress on the cartwheel by practicing flying horizontally and turning 180 deg down to change direction, just to train my hands to that motion.


This is how Watty recommended to practice, while flying horizontally, turn 180 degrees (practice the down turn and up turn) and continue flying horizontally in the original direction.

Practicing in this manner started me on my way!! ;)

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#80 RevWizard

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 10:34 AM

So the bicycle is performed higher in the window and the cartwheel and moonwalk closer to the ground?? Posted Image

The bicycle, cartwheel and "Hadzicki Shuffle" as far back as I can determine are the same, just different names. None are touching the ground nor as far as I can determine the height off the ground does not really matter. The only exception to this was when there was a compulsory figure in the past that specified that it should be a certain percentage of the wind window above the ground.
The "moonwalk" is movement in the same directions as above with opposite rotations. Left to right, rotate anti-clockwise. Right to left rotate clockwise.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
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Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!





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