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Failure of my horizontal mesh


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#1 John F

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 11:49 AM

This is the second time i have had a rev where the mesh splits where you bend it for storage. It seems the mesh is more brittle than the dacron and eventually splits where it is sewn to the LE pocket.

What I did for a repair is take a 2 inch long piece of dacron and sewed it over the split which is about 1/2 inch long. Sewed it zigzag along LE pocket and along the sail material hem. Then vertical straight stitch throught the mesh. Hopefully this captures the mesh. I think this will prevent further spliting of the mesh and I also think such a small amount of dacron will not affect the aerodynamics of the kite. This would seem like a logical solution to problem with Revs. The first kite I experience the problem on was REV 2 and the whole top of the mesh split out. I think there is a lot of tensile force on that seam so if there is a small split it will eventually grow big.

Would even seem logical for REV to put dacron strips where you bend the sail for storage. Little extra labor but might fix a weak point.

#2 stevepigeon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 01:03 PM

that sounds like iy would be okay fix for it i just dont know why you didnt call rev ...i know for a fact they have the best customer service around not that ive had many repairs ..but when i did rev was right there ben and lolly and the whole crew there are the greatest when it comes to backing up the product thats just my two cents
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#3 Sailor99

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 10:54 PM

Not sure I totally agree about the back up service.
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#4 antman

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 02:19 AM

i have had top screens tear on me but only from old age not from that .. however i do agree that they should find a way to make that part of the kite stronger .. as it is the only weak point of the sail
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#5 jburka

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 06:14 AM

I had that problem with my '89 Rev I and at the time noticed that the tears in the mesh seemed to occur at the points where the sail was folded -- the location of the splits in the leading edge rods.

Since then, I've been careful to pull the rods out a bit, leaving a wider space between the ends internal to the leading edge, before folding the kite. I've not had the mesh rip on any of my other revs over the last 18 or so years.

#6 Bazzer

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 06:22 AM

I had that problem with my '89 Rev I and at the time noticed that the tears in the mesh seemed to occur at the points where the sail was folded -- the location of the splits in the leading edge rods.

Since then, I've been careful to pull the rods out a bit, leaving a wider space between the ends internal to the leading edge, before folding the kite. I've not had the mesh rip on any of my other revs over the last 18 or so years.

Also roll it up a bit looser.
It doesn't have to be a tight roll in the bag.
Don't wrench it up so much.
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#7 MrDenny

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 06:35 AM

Yes ANT a week point. I am one kite down due the tears in the mesh(same place too). I have changed the way I store my kites.
Like Bazzer, I roll much looser now.
Like jburka, I now pull the rods out a bit, leaving a wider space between the ends.
add to that using that space, I try to fold in a different place on the sail each time.
I also now put the verticals in after the first or second roll so they are not rubbing against the screen.
Who knows perhaps all this helps.
If they never wore out I could never get new ones.

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#8 steveb

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 07:54 AM

Re-posted from another thread:
Here is a quick 'n' dirty way to repair a rip in the mesh- think of it as a band-aid solution rather than a permanent cure.

quick_n_dirty_mesh_repair1.jpg quick_n_dirty_mesh_repair2.jpg quick_n_dirty_mesh_repair3.jpg

I just run a fairly tight line of zig-zag stitching along the rip, catching the leading edge Dacron on one side and the untorn mesh squares on the other.

My old Vented 1.5 had several tears in its mesh and I repaired them in well under a minute.
Eventually I'll do a proper job and sew a new leading edge and mesh on, but this band-aid keeps the kites going until I get around to replacing it.

I have flown 2 of my older Revs after this repair in winds in excess of 25 knots over the last few months without problems.

#9 Jim Foster

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 10:54 AM

This is a common problem.

During a visit to Rev a few weeks ago, I asked Lolly about these screen failures. She said that the screen is being torn by the edge of the heavy material along the top of the leading edge when the kite is rolled. That makes sense to me, because that is exactly where the screen fails. A horizontal tear at the top, not an vertical tear where the kite is folded.

To prevent this failure, Lolly suggests that after the kite is folded in thirds, place the vertical spars against the screen, at the top next to the heavy material, and make one fold, keeping the entire leeading edge flat with the spars for support, then continue rolling the kite.

Makes sense to me.
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#10 Kitelife

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 12:20 PM

Another thing that helps is ensuring you have some space between the ends of the spars inside the leading edge material...

An inch or so should do it, and lessen the stress at the fold point.

If you're really particular, you could also move the fold point by an inch or so every now and then. ;)

Me, I just roll it clean (not too tight) and bag it... Very few of the screens on my kites have had problems.

But, I also don't crash very much anymore. ;)

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#11 Watty

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 05:32 PM

Wow, I was unaware of all the ways of preventing this. My first rev was a free demo rev from Ben, and it had this problem, along with a few other nicks, and nacks. This thread is very helpful.

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#12 RevWizard

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 05:47 PM

Another thing that helps is ensuring you have some space between the ends of the spars inside the leading edge material...

An inch or so should do it, and lessen the stress at the fold point.

If you're really particular, you could also move the fold point by an inch or so every now and then. ;)

Me, I just roll it clean (not too tight) and bag it... Very few of the screens on my kites have had problems.

But, I also don't crash very much anymore. ;)

Another thing I would like to point out. Don't use your packed REV as a walking stick! Otherwise you would push the cracking of the screen even more.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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#13 jburka

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 09:08 AM

Another thing I would like to point out. Don't use your packed REV as a walking stick! Otherwise you would push the cracking of the screen even more.



I've been doing that for so long that when I make new bags I put a layer of kevlar at the bottom so I don't wear a hole in the fabric and lose a spar out of the bottom!

It occurs to me, though, that the kites I'm usually using as a walking stick are custom rev IIs with a 1.5oz ripstop leading edge (and dacron reinforcements at the ends and where the spines meet the LE) so if Lolly's thinking about the sharpness of the dacron LE causing cuts, I wouldn't be nearly as susceptible to that on my IIs (though my 1.5s would...)

#14 Jonesey

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 02:02 PM

Having read this thread, looked at my kites and reflected on a life in sailing I was wondering why nobody rolls their sails along the leading edge as you would any laminate dinghy or yacht sail for storage? .... I pondered it to the point where at 11:45pm I grabbed my rev back took out all 6 (currently) kites and proceeded to repack them this way ... so far my thoughts are....

Con's...

1. Time/convenience ... have to remove leading edge entirely, then roll smoothly entire length
2. Bulk ... resultant pack has greater diameter but is shorter (excl rods)

Pro's...

1. No crease/fatigue points in Mylar or mesh.. longer life
2. If you regularly swap rods/frames between kites its easy to slide rods out from 'roll' without unpacking kite.

Reality...

I have kind of settled on a middle ground.... In the field depending on the breeze I will pack away any nylon sail in the conventional manner ...My Blast 2.4, Ssonic or shockwaves I will try and remove LE then roll around the rods if possible, either way when I get home I take the time to not only do the sand/dirt rinse out but then to repack all sails by rolling this way before returning them to my rev bag ....and obviously there's no point going to all this effort and then strapping up your bag as tight as possible .... I've negotiated a location with 'management' where I am allowed to keep my rev bag loosely rolled and away from marauding children!

Not sure this will make much difference to the life-span of nylon 1.5 or B's but pretty sure any sail with mylar panels will benefit.

Am I mad? .... flame away

#15 RevWizard

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 04:25 PM

Having read this thread, looked at my kites and reflected on a life in sailing I was wondering why nobody rolls their sails along the leading edge as you would any laminate dinghy or yacht sail for storage? .... I pondered it to the point where at 11:45pm I grabbed my rev back took out all 6 (currently) kites and proceeded to repack them this way ... so far my thoughts are....

Con's...

1. Time/convenience ... have to remove leading edge entirely, then roll smoothly entire length
2. Bulk ... resultant pack has greater diameter but is shorter (excl rods)

Pro's...

1. No crease/fatigue points in Mylar or mesh.. longer life
2. If you regularly swap rods/frames between kites its easy to slide rods out from 'roll' without unpacking kite.

Reality...

I have kind of settled on a middle ground.... In the field depending on the breeze I will pack away any nylon sail in the conventional manner ...My Blast 2.4, Ssonic or shockwaves I will try and remove LE then roll around the rods if possible, either way when I get home I take the time to not only do the sand/dirt rinse out but then to repack all sails by rolling this way before returning them to my rev bag ....and obviously there's no point going to all this effort and then strapping up your bag as tight as possible .... I've negotiated a location with 'management' where I am allowed to keep my rev bag loosely rolled and away from marauding children!

Not sure this will make much difference to the life-span of nylon 1.5 or B's but pretty sure any sail with mylar panels will benefit.

Am I mad? .... flame away

Idea are always interesting to listen to!
Could you roll a REV up in the way you describe and photograph it for us?

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
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#16 Jonesey

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 11:48 PM

Idea are always interesting to listen to!
Could you roll a REV up in the way you describe and photograph it for us?

Your wish is my command (please excuse iPhone camera!)...

Took advantage of 8 knots of breeze and a sunny morning to sneak out of the house at 7am and snatch a quick hour with the 2~4 got back in before anyone was up just in time to cook the pancakes! ... anyway convinced now this is how I will pack my mylar sails .. works for me!

Sunday chores beckon but at least I've had my fix..

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#17 RevWizard

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 12:17 AM

Your wish is my command (please excuse iPhone camera!)...

Took advantage of 8 knots of breeze and a sunny morning to sneak out of the house at 7am and snatch a quick hour with the 2~4 got back in before anyone was up just in time to cook the pancakes! ... anyway convinced now this is how I will pack my mylar sails .. works for me!

Sunday chores beckon but at least I've had my fix..

Got to check that out with a REV series and see if it might be practical.
Most likely I would at least need to make larger diameter bags.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#18 Jonesey

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 01:33 AM

Got to check that out with a REV series and see if it might be practical.
Most likely I would at least need to make larger diameter bags.


My 1.5 and B series fit in their original bags no problem.. but I only have 6 kites in my Rev bag. Did think about rolling round a tube covered with foam so rods in the centre of tube then sail round tube (foam would help a little with the end caps etc) ... decided I needed to get a life!

Did speak to someone the other day who was thinking about a bigger tube with all his sails rolled round this and centre acting as storage for handles, lines etc ... all of which lives in a bigger tube/bag... would get pretty cumbersome...

You can see in my previous middle picture the 'packing' creases from how the sail arrived .. mylar films do fatigue if you keep using the same creases and thats really what I'm trying to avoid...

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#19 FortFlyer

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 06:58 AM

Jonesey, I figured you might want to know on the power blast mostly out of the speed series there is a curl along the mylar panel under the leading edge that is also helped with the bungees on the ends, this helps give it it's float abilities and its encouraged to pack so that the ends maintain this curl on the ends.

The way your packing that will most defiantly remove that curl effecting its flight characteristics quickly.

However, for a regular Rev that does look like a great idea I just don't think I would do that with a speed series especially with a power blast 2-4 those are too expensive to ruin IMHO.

I believe in the video Joe makes note to this when packing it away.
Jim,
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#20 Jonesey

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:01 AM

Jonesey, I figured you might want to know on the power blast mostly out of the speed series there is a curl along the mylar panel under the leading edge that is also helped with the bungees on the ends, this helps give it it's float abilities and its encouraged to pack so that the ends maintain this curl on the ends.

The way your packing that will most defiantly remove that curl effecting its flight characteristics quickly.

However, for a regular Rev that does look like a great idea I just don't think I would do that with a speed series especially with a power blast 2-4 those are too expensive to ruin IMHO.

I believe in the video Joe makes note to this when packing it away.


Interesting point ... but I am not sure I agree.. the only way you can put shape into a mylar panel is by seaming, moulding (certain grand prix yacht sails are built over moulds) and tension so all the individual panels in a Rev are flat and the 'shape' is pulled in by the bungee tension and the way the sail interacts with the frame .... an easy way of showing this is to take a peice of paper out of your printer/photo copier and hold it by two diagonally opposite corners now pull them and site along the line between them.... you get a nice curve and the harder you pull the more the curve.. this is exactly what you see when the sail isnt loaded on the ground with tenison along the luff....

I think Ive got some old sailmaking software somwhere from another life that I must dig out and load up a rev sail to see what/where the load is going and what the flying shape is... would make for some ineresting discussions!

Anyway my knowledge of kites is minimal so I stand to be flamed but I have do have a lifetime of working with sails and would bet my life on the fact that any mylar material will last longer if its rolled then if its folded ... like you say the 2~4 is too expensive to ruin so thats why I'm going to roll mine!

By the way thanks for the advice on lines ... was nervous to try my 90# lines but used them yesterday and all was well... the more I fly the 2~4 the more I love it....still scares the s%&t out of me though!

Jonesey




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